WM_Su2015_06

Welding Metallurgy Summer 2015 Session · 8 sections 17 cases · Watch on YouTube ↗ all files
Layer 3 — readable edition

§1. Liability and accommodation in big failures [00:03]

§1.p1

[Tom holds up an asphalt reclaimer tool tip.] This little asphalt reclaimer tool has a carbide center with a diamond on the tip. I didn't tell you why this ever went into commercial production — it's ten times the life. On the break, Adrian asked about liability for some of these screw-ups.

§1.p2

It's sort of like the question of whether you can let a big bank fail. If it's some lower-level person, you're going to send them to jail, bankrupt them, whatever. But if it's a really big failure, you can usually come to some accommodation.

§1.p3

To give you an example: there's a specification going back to the 1970s that you have to quench and temper your high-strength aluminum alloys. It's not the same as martensite — when we go through aluminum welding we'll talk about how you treat aluminum alloys that are quenched and tempered for different metallurgical reasons. You get higher strength, but you get precipitation hardening, not martensite. There's one plant in the United States, the Davenport Iowa works of Alcoa, that has the world's largest rolling mill. That's where they roll all the plate — four-and-a-half-inch-thick, six-inch plate, huge plate — for Boeing and a number of aircraft companies. If you're going to build a huge aircraft, you have to buy from Alcoa at this plant. To quench these big plates, they have a series of water jets. The hot plate goes under this shower of water jets, gets quenched, and is later tempered.

§1.p4

They discovered, a little later than they would have liked, that one of the jets was plugged. By that point Boeing had already done all the machining and put the plates on aircraft that were flying around the world. So you had a big wide plate with a streak that never got quenched and tempered — a local streak. At this point they had to notify the government. They notified NIST, which is an excellent lab in Gaithersburg, Maryland. The head of NIST was Bob Reuven [Schaefer?], the guy who didn't get tenure here at MIT before they hired me.

§1.p5

He was head of the NIST lab, and they set up a partnership between the government, Alcoa, and the airlines. When it's a really big problem there are people who actually want to know how to solve it first, and then tell the boss. They jointly developed an electrical resistance measuring device — a non-destructive probe you put on the surface. I have one that cost about $5,000. You put it on the surface of the metal, measure the electrical resistivity of the aluminum, and you can tell the heat treatment. They could go check the wings at lots of locations to see if they had been properly heat-treated. I was involved in that.

§1.p6

Another example I heard was the Citicorp Tower in New York City. After they built the tower they discovered that some of the welded joints were not good for seismic loading. If you had a really severe earthquake, this building was going to collapse. There's an article in The New Yorker about this whole thing, but it didn't tell the story I heard from another point of view. You had the architects, the engineers who designed the building, the contractor who built it, a bunch of subs, and then the owner, Citicorp. What were they going to do? The story I heard was about John Reed — John Reed went to Sloan School, became chairman of Citicorp, retired four years ago at 75 years old, and is chair of the MIT Corporation. This guy was the real high flyer.

§1.p7

I checked with him last winter, because his brother had a welding problem. His brother is 85 years old and owns a steel tank welding business down in Tampa, Florida — not a small one — and they work with nine percent nickel steel. John Reed had heard from my dean that I knew something about welding, so he wanted his brother to hire me. I talked to one of their engineers, and they didn't want any help. So I talked to John, and he apologized profusely for his brother. But I said, John, can you confirm this story? The story I heard, which John didn't completely confirm — he said he didn't remember the details — he remembered the problem, and he remembered everybody getting together and working it out cooperatively, because it was a huge problem.

§1.p8

The way I heard the story when I was in the Sloan program: they got them all together, and after John Reed heard how big the problem was, he said, okay, I will pay for it. Citicorp will pay for the repair. We're not going to get any attorneys involved. You're going to work at cost, and you're going to work with us, and I will pay for all the materials. And they fixed it. He remembers that he made some decision in the meeting, but he doesn't even remember about the cost, because he was dealing with hundreds of billions of dollars — who cares about a few million.

§1.p9

When the problems are really big you can often go around the attorneys. But when the problems are smaller — say, a hundred-million-dollar problem — the attorneys take control, and then you can't get the engineers together. No one wants to allow their engineering staff to talk to the others. It's pretty dysfunctional as far as solving the problem, because everybody's CYA — who's going to pay for it? When the Seawolf submarine had its two-billion-dollar problems with the welds, they worked it out. What are you going to do? You're going to bankrupt one of the two submarine building facilities? You can't do it.

§1.p10

I remember working for Bell Helicopter on some things, and the chief counsel said, we've got to quit thinking that we can sue our suppliers. The suppliers will just say, we're not going to supply you anymore, we don't want the liability. So there's lots of business decisions that go into things. The problem is when the trial attorneys get in there — they're just sharks. Welcome to the law profession, which is actually okay because they hire me, and that's how I got grandkids.

§1.p11

But logically, if it's really big — multi-million dollars — you usually find some way to fix it. I've got a problem right now — I'm not going to tell you the product — but it's hundreds of millions of dollars of steel fabrication. They found that they've got a design defect, and the company that fabricated it was supposed to design it. These things are breaking. If they do break at the wrong time, they may kill a few cows, but they won't kill people. But people will be without electricity in the country, and it becomes a big political problem with the regulators.

§1.p12

It turns out that as we've gotten into it, they've got this problem in other parts of the country — same problem. I asked, when are you going to go find out from the other companies in other parts of the country? None of them really want to talk to each other, because the attorneys are all afraid of who goes after the manufacturer first and puts them in receivership. Everybody wants to be first in the trough to get their money out before the company goes bankrupt. In fact, the CEOs of these companies — nobody wants to put the manufacturer in receivership, because if you want to be in business you need a supplier. Ultimately, if it's a really big problem, cooler heads will usually prevail. Does that answer your question?

§1.p13

Student: Yeah, I was curious about the dynamics — whether it's more reputation, or the legal framework, or whether they might be criminal. Just trying to get a sense.

§2. Tylenol, Amtrak, and the Phelps Dodge fraud case [11:20]

§2.p1

These are all kinds of variations. The famous one is when Johnson & Johnson found out that someone was spiking the Tylenol, putting poison in their Tylenol on store shelves. They recalled all of it. They hadn't done anything wrong, but it was their product and their reputation. They have a credo at Johnson & Johnson that basically comes out of the Hippocratic oath: they will not do any harm. Johnson & Johnson actually calculated that their business improved by more than the cost of recalling all the Tylenol. They got great press for doing the right thing, even though it wasn't their fault.

§2.p2

By the same token, I was involved in the northeast extension of Amtrak a few years ago. They had a British firm doing a $300 million Amtrak contract — remember Amtrak is basically covered by the federal government. This British firm, which had all kinds of electrified commuter train tracks elsewhere, was in charge. It was a fixed-cost contract, and they needed a bunch of copper wire for the overhead conductor that these electric trains run on — a very special type of copper wire.

§2.p3

I got a call around the twentieth of December one year: could I go out and look at this product? The British company was going to buy from a little company in Rome, New York. Could I do an inspection and decide whether they could give a waiver on the product? And, by the way, we have to have a decision before Christmas.

§2.p4

I went out, looked at things, and by the 22nd or 23rd I said, no, can't accept it. At that point Amtrak issued an order: don't install any of this product, go find another supplier. The British company said, there is no other supplier, we've searched the world, we can't find anyone who can make this product, and if you don't let us put it up, you're not going to finish the northeast extension.

§2.p5

Through other channels, the government found out that there was a company called Phelps Dodge, one of the world's largest copper companies. They had a product that would meet the spec — actually exceeded the ductility. The ductility was supposed to be more than ten percent, and theirs was more than twenty percent in stretching. For whatever reason, Phelps Dodge had been treated as suspect. I said, use the Phelps Dodge material, it's out of spec but the spec is a silly spec. They ended up using it, and they built it.

§2.p6

But before that, the British company hadn't obeyed Amtrak — they had actually put some of the original product up around Providence. They had a train run by, and it was just the Fourth of July, arcs all along the wire. The wire was wavy, the slider would bounce as it went along and get electric arcs, and the wire would have worn out in three months. Profuse sparking. So I was right in rejecting the other product.

§2.p7

The reason they wanted that other product is they could buy it for $2.5 million from Rome, New York, and they would have to get it from Phelps Dodge for $4.7 million. It was a fixed-cost project, so guess which one they chose. And what did they tell the federal government? There is no one else.

§2.p8

When the federal government found out about Phelps Dodge, they said, why did you say there's no one else? You certified that there was no other supplier. We went to a three-day or five-day mediation in Connecticut. We ended up prevailing. The next day, after the decision came down — I was no longer involved — the story was that the FBI came in and confiscated all the computers and the passports of the senior management of British Rail for fraud against the federal government. They had lied. The Justice Department doesn't like that, particularly when you're trying to make a few million dollars off of your lie. I'm sure there was an accommodation, and it probably cost the company quite a few million dollars from their fraud. I doubt anyone went to jail, but nonetheless.

§2.p9

There are other stories — RV brake shoes, for example — where if you get a government Justice Department attorney involved, you can resolve things. Okay. I'm going to show a video, it goes for about ten minutes, on hydrogen embrittlement. Oh — Microsoft has decided it wants to do an auto update right now.

§3. Video: hydrogen in welds and the diffusion demonstration [19:15]

§3.p1

[Video plays.] Defects such as slag inclusions, porosity, and hydrogen cracking depend on the materials and process conditions. Hydrogen cracking — also called hydrogen-induced cracking, hydrogen-assisted cracking, cold cracking, and delayed cracking — typically occurs at stress concentrations and can propagate through the weld metal or heat-affected zone. Hydrogen cracking results when three independent conditions occur: hydrogen in the weld, a crack-susceptible microstructure, and tensile stresses.

§3.p2

Because susceptibility to hydrogen increases with hydrogen content, this demonstration focuses on low-hydrogen welding processes. SMAW using basic-type electrodes, gas metal arc welding, and gas tungsten arc welding are considered low-hydrogen welding processes. Hydrogen content in the weld is measured per 100 grams of deposited weld. A typical low-hydrogen process produces welds with four milliliters of hydrogen per 100 grams or less. In contrast, shielded metal arc welding using cellulosic-type electrodes produces welds with hydrogen levels of 46 milliliters per 100 grams — ten times more hydrogen. If a weld remains at high temperature, through interpass temperature control or postheat, the hydrogen has the ability to diffuse away. The average diffusion rate of hydrogen in steel at 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit) is typically 1,000 times faster than at 20 degrees Celsius.

§3.p3

Modeling shows the hydrogen level for welding a quarter-inch and five-eighths-inch thick pipe materials without preheating, as well as five-eighths-inch thick material with a 250 degree Fahrenheit preheat. The hydrogen levels are modeled after a typical cellulosic-coated SMAW electrode. Hydrogen diffuses from the root pass into the heat-affected zone, base material, and surrounding atmosphere as the weld cools. The maximum hydrogen level is present days after welding, at 1.75 milliliters per 100 grams for the quarter-inch thick pipe and 1.5 milliliters for the same with preheat. With preheat for thick-wall pipe, more hydrogen diffuses away, lowering the maximum hydrogen level to 0.75 milliliters per 100 grams. Postheating following the completion of welding can further reduce weld hydrogen.

§3.p4

Hydrogen can come from sources other than the welding process itself. It can be introduced by organic materials or moisture on the electrodes or the base materials. Hydrocarbons and moisture get broken into atomic hydrogen in the intensity of the welding arc. The liquid weld pool has very high solubility for hydrogen, but as the weld solidifies and cools to room temperature, the hydrogen becomes trapped or supersaturated in the solid steel. You may wonder how hydrogen can stay in solution if no bubbles of porosity are evident. Look to the periodic table. Iron has a relatively large atomic size compared to hydrogen. If you imagine the iron atoms as basketballs and the hydrogen atoms as ping-pong balls, hydrogen atoms can fit in the spaces between iron atoms.

§3.p5

The following welding demonstration shows the differences between a high-hydrogen SMAW cellulosic electrode and a basic-coated low-hydrogen SMAW electrode. The low-hydrogen electrode used has the designation H4R, meaning the hydrogen content of the as-received electrode is four milliliters per 100 grams or less, and it is covered with a moisture-resistant coating. Three V-bead-on-plate welds are deposited as part of the shielded metal arc process. Immediately on completion, the welds are placed in mineral oil to observe the diffusion of hydrogen. The first sample is welded with the cellulosic high-hydrogen electrode. A large number of hydrogen bubbles can be seen slowly diffusing out.

§3.p6

The second sample was welded with a low-hydrogen electrode. Compared to the first sample, this coincides with the fact that approximately ten times less hydrogen will be introduced to a weld made with a low-hydrogen electrode. The third sample was welded with a poorly maintained low-hydrogen electrode that was allowed to absorb moisture. Despite the moisture-resistant coating, you can see a large number of hydrogen bubbles diffuse — similar to the cellulosic electrode.

§3.p7

To show the beneficial increase in hydrogen diffusion at elevated temperature, a low-hydrogen electrode weld is allowed to sit at room temperature. The hydrogen bubbles slow down. Then it's placed in a bath of oil heated to a higher temperature. The temperature shown allows hydrogen to diffuse 1,000 times faster than room temperature. Diffusion begins again, and a rapid release of hydrogen occurs. Welds that we heat and allow to slow-cool will allow more hydrogen to diffuse, reducing susceptibility to hydrogen embrittlement. Remember, limiting hydrogen in the weld reduces hydrogen cracking susceptibility. A low-hydrogen electrode introduces less hydrogen than a cellulosic electrode. However, improperly maintained low-hydrogen electrodes can introduce approximately as much hydrogen as a cellulosic electrode. If it is not feasible to significantly reduce hydrogen introduced to a weld, careful control of preheat, interpass temperature, or postheat increases hydrogen diffusion and reduces cracking susceptibility.

§4. Diffusion times, helicopter steels, and the Sierras case [27:37]

§4.p1

[Video ends.] Okay, so it looks like much of the hydrogen's gone. It takes about a week or two for most of the hydrogen to diffuse out at room temperature, but if you heat it up to 250 degrees that goes a lot quicker. That's what we do for very high-strength steels. If you're building bridges, the AWS welding code says you must wait, I think it's 72 hours, before you do your non-destructive testing. They call it delayed cracking.

§4.p2

It turns out the ASTM specs, if you're heat-treating, say, a helicopter rotor blade or mast — which is very high-strength steel — can tolerate not four milliliters of hydrogen but less than one milliliter of hydrogen when welded. One of you asked where the hydrogen comes from. For a typical steel coming out of the steel mill, just because of the humidity in the air when they were melting it, you'll have one or two parts per million hydrogen out of the mill. Not a problem for lower-strength steels. When you weld, you can get that up to 30 parts per million. Grams per hundred is about a 1.1 conversion factor, so just take it as the same. That four-milliliter stick electrode is the best you can buy in normal commercial practice. Gas metal arc welding, which we're going to discuss, has even lower hydrogen — that's one of the reasons to go to it. But at very high-strength steels like aircraft landing gear or helicopter rotor mast, when you're at 250 ksi, you tolerate less than one part per million. That can be from the steel-making process alone.

§4.p3

Student: Can hydrogen cracking still occur a year or two years after the weld is completed?

§4.p4

No, not unless it's been reintroduced. It will cure itself if you keep it up. I know one case where it lasted a year, and that was in the High Sierras, where the weld was frozen all winter. If you want to keep hydrogen in steel: I had a student do his thesis 30 years ago on hydrogen cracking in armor steels. He was working for the Army over here at Watertown Arsenal. He would make his welds and within five seconds put them in liquid nitrogen, so he held the hydrogen in there long enough to do his hydrogen analysis. You all saw how fast it comes out. To get the actual hydrogen at the time of the weld, you can only extrapolate back, because you can't weld and do a diffusion analysis at the same time. Although Morris Cohen suggested that. That's where I learned about the impracticality of great academics.

§4.p5

Student: A story about the practical side of preheating: we were welding on a destroyer's rudder steel. When you have to preheat thick steel, that heat goes somewhere — it spreads. So if a welder has to get into a tight spot to weld, they're basically welding in an oven. You can burn yourself just touching the surface you're working on. The practical aspects of preheat can get pretty tricky.

§5. Seawolf, the Cole, and the blue jelly suits [32:07]

§5.p1

In fact, the Seawolf submarine had hydrogen cracking. I actually determined it was hydrogen due to a lubricant in the gas metal arc weld zone — not cleaning the lubricants off well enough. That was my conclusion. Electric Boat didn't like hearing that, because they had it left over from a previous job. When they started to repair it, they first had to dig all the welds out and then start re-welding. Congress was not happy at the time with two-billion-dollar problems. They actually started welding in what they call blue jelly suits. The foundations of the submarine are pretty heavy steel, a lot of it in egg-crate construction. You're crawling into some hole, and they wanted you to preheat to 400 degrees Fahrenheit. How would you like to be the welder in egg-crate construction underneath that? They actually put the welders on little wheeled carts, like a mechanic uses underneath a car. They put them in blue jelly suits, pumped chilled liquid through them, they were breathing air through a mask, and they had like ten minutes of welding time before they had to come out and someone else had to go in.

§5.p2

It's sort of like the USS Cole. They repaired the USS Cole at a cost greater than building a new destroyer, because they didn't want — whoever bombed the Cole — to think they had destroyed a capital ship of the USA. So they spent more money to repair it. That was sort of the Seawolf too, but with blue jelly suits. They don't use blue jelly suits anymore. The reason they had to in this case is that they could get all the up-to-two-inch-thick plate they wanted from the steel mill, but they couldn't get the four-inch plate for more than a year, for various reasons — capacity of the steel mills. So they had to reuse the really heavy steel plate, and that's what they were welding in the blue jelly suits.

§5.p3

When they went to other parts of the submarine, they actually just replaced — it's cheaper to scrap the old stuff. They had tighter chemistry control on the weld metal and on the base metal, so they didn't get to higher hardnesses and greater susceptibility, and they kept the hydrogen down.

§6. Bay Bridge corrosion-hydrogen and the Venn diagram [35:04]

§6.p1

These problems show up all the time. The Bay Bridge in California — it's coming from corrosion. They have big 46-inch-diameter steel tie rods, and they started corroding. The corrosion process creates hydrogen that diffuses into the steel — not as much as in welding — and they said, oh, they cracked within a couple of weeks. Well, that's hydrogen. The hydrogen will usually diffuse out within a few days. For federal highway work, you don't do your inspection for cracks until 72 hours later, because the cracks usually form in the first few days. The US Navy and some shipyards wait seven days. Make sure the cracks have formed if they're going to form. What good does it do to inspect if the cracks haven't formed yet and they form after you inspected?

§6.p2

They had a Venn diagram, the three circles. This is the way the corrosion folks typically talk about stress corrosion cracking, hydrogen embrittlement, and a number of corrosion processes. Frankly, hydrogen embrittlement can be considered a corrosion process. You have to have three things: stress, a microstructure that's susceptible, and in this case hydrogen. If you have no hydrogen, or no high stress, you won't have hydrogen embrittlement. If you don't have hard martensite — martensite is the most susceptible of all the steel structures to hydrogen embrittlement — under low levels of stress and hydrogen, you're fine. The reason they like a Venn diagram is the problem occurs at the intersection of all three. If you have less hydrogen, that becomes a smaller circle and doesn't intersect the other two. If you have less residual stress — that's why we stress-relieve — you don't intersect. If you don't have a martensitic steel — well, how do we get a non-martensitic high-strength steel? HY-80 and HY-100 are martensitic steels. We go to high-strength low-alloy steels, HSLA-80, HSLA-100. We didn't have that technology in the 1960s. We had quench and temper.

§7. HSLA steels and the Japan study [37:54]

§7.p1

The Japanese developed what they call accelerated-cooled steels. Actually they were first developed by Jones and Laughlin Steel in the United States in the 1960s for automotive dies, but we didn't do much with it. The Japanese had a huge shipbuilding industry and they wanted to be more productive to keep the Koreans from catching up with them in the 1980s. So they started developing high-strength low-alloy steels. The reason the US Office of Naval Research sent me to Japan in the mid-1980s is that the Japanese had the best technology in the world for making HSLA steels. We didn't even have a steel company that could make it. The US Navy was considering investing a hundred million dollars in a steel mill under what they call a Title III program, where the government can pay for the capital equipment to produce something the military felt was necessary. They wanted me to go over there and learn how the Japanese did their accelerated cooling to make higher-strength steels with lower carbon, lower hardenability, and therefore better weldability. High hardenability is bad weldability.

§7.p2

Student: The reason the high-strength steels need lower hydrogen — is it that they have more martensite?

§7.p3

The important thing about HSLA — that's why we chose LA, low alloy — is that you have less martensite. High-strength steels can have high hardenability, or they require very low hydrogen. Why? High-strength steels have more residual stress locked in. Remember — someone was talking back there about pulling pipes together, jacking pipes together, and when you let go they spring. Those are the locked-in stresses. The higher the strength of the steel, the higher the locked-in stress, the bigger this stress circle gets. The more martensite, like HY-80, the worse the microstructure circle. So you make this HSLA, that's better. You make a lower-strength steel, or you stress-relieve to get rid of the residual stresses, or you lower the hydrogen. We actually do all three because we don't want that intersection in the center. You can shrink each one of those circles in size if you're clever, but it costs money.

§8. Flaws, inclusions, and the limits of perfect materials [40:45]

§8.p1

Student: You know, GD nuclear power — they had brittle fracture very early. So our task is to make sure I'm not — brittle fracture is pretty distinct. In a hypothetical scenario, if you just create a material with no pre-existing flaws, then you can prevent brittle fracture. In practice that's impossible. But that's different than what we're saying here. We're saying the atomic structure itself permits hydrogen to diffuse in.

§8.p2

You always have flaws in the steel — microscopic, smaller than a human hair. Seriously, microscopic flaws. The hydrogen will diffuse to those. If you go on YouTube you can probably find somebody from the 1950s or 1960s at Rensselaer, Apollo Tiffany [?]. They took a piece of steel that they welded and polished — or they may have introduced the hydrogen not by welding but electrochemically, through a rapid corrosion process. They put a notch in it, just like a torn piece of paper, and they put tension on it. They put some blistering on top, and under a microscope they could see the bubbles coming right out of the crack tip, because the crack tip is larger in volume — you're stressing in tension. The hydrogen wants to diffuse there, and as it concentrates at the crack tip, it allows the crack to progress. You can see in the microscope the crack growing, and you can see the bubbles coming up right ahead of it, because the hydrogen wants to diffuse to that crack tip — unless you can diffuse it out to the air faster. It will start even at these little inclusions.

§8.p3

The Naval Research Lab found in the early 1980s that they could weld HY-80 with lasers and have better toughness and more resistance to hydrogen in the weld pool, because the laser actually vaporized away the inclusions in the steel. They ended up with a super-clean steel from the welding process. A scientific curiosity that proves the point: if you're ultra clean, you can resist this — but you can't make steel that clean on a tonnage basis. Maybe a hundred years from now we'll have some way to do it. Today we make steel thirty times cleaner than it was 50 years ago. That's why we don't have laminations, why we don't get crap when you put it in a stress-relief furnace.

§8.p4

But we still can't make perfect materials. A lot of what you hear about new materials — the nanowires, nanotubes, graphene, all this stuff — is based on some physicist calculating on a piece of paper what he thinks the properties of an absolutely atomically perfect material are. Bob Sprague, the head of GE Aircraft Engines 30 years ago, said: whatever you first hear about properties of a new material, write it down, because those are the best properties of the material that will ever be reported. And Jim Williams, who replaced him, used to say, his corollary is: whenever you first hear about the cost of a new material, write it down — that's the cheapest the cost is going to be.

§8.p5

Bob Sprague had another quote. He said physicists think that structure controls properties — that's the big thing from the DMSE materials science department here. Materials scientists, who are wannabe physicists, also think that structure controls properties. Metallurgists know that defects control properties. How big is that little notch? Even microscopic notches in some cases are what limit your properties.

§8.p6

I passed around the other day a sample that was electron beam welding overcladding a nickel alloy on top of a piece of steel. That produced some of the cleanest microstructures, because you're electron-beam-refining every little weld pass. They're kind of pricey, but you can make very clean material. So when we're making steel in space with lasers — that's how the higher quality is going to come. You want to take your submarines and build them up in space. The Air Force might actually believe that. Let's start building submarines in space.

Cases referenced

Layer 2 — cleanup edit
p1 00:03

This little one asphalt reclaimer fool has carbide center diamond on the tip, and I didn't tell you why this ever went into commercial production. Who's fencing ten times the life, but so far seconds. Hey, I just want to mention that. On the break Adrian asked about, what's the liability for some of these screw-ups?

p2 00:27

Okay well, it's sort of like, can you allow a big bank to pay? Okay, the financial stuff. If someone's, is it some lower-level person, you're going to even send them to jail, you know, bankrupt them or whatever. But if it's a really big failure, that usually can come to some accommodation, okay.

p3 00:52

And to give you an example, specification back in the 1970s, you have to quench and temper your high-strength aluminum alloys. Okay, it's not the same martensite and stuff, and when we go through aluminum welding we'll talk a little bit about, you treat aluminum alloys which are quenched and tempered but for different metallurgical [reasons]. So you get higher strength, but you get different — you don't get martensite, you get precipitation hardening. But in this case, there's one plant in the United States, the Davenport Iowa works of Alcoa, that has the world's largest rolling mill, and that's where they roll all the plate, four-and-a-half-inch-thick, six-inch plate, huge plate, in this huge mill for the aircraft ones for Boeing and a number of companies, okay. So you're going to build a huge aircraft, you're going to have to buy from Alcoa at this plant. And in order to quench these big plates, they have a series of water jets, and the plate, the hot plate just goes under this shower of all these water jets and it gets quenched and then later is tempered.

p4 02:16

Well, turns out they discovered a little bit later than they would like to, that one of the [jets was plugged] in this world works, okay, and it was late enough that Boeing had already done all the machining, put them on aircraft that were flying around the world. And so you had big wide plate, and you had some strike that never got quenched and tempered. It's just a local [streak], okay. Well at this point they had to notify the government. They had to notify the government, got one of their — part of the Commerce, NIST, which is an excellent lab in Gaithersburg Maryland. The guy who headed NIST was — Todd was the guy who didn't get tenure here at MIT before they hired me, Bob Reuven, I'm sure.

p5 03:12

He was head of the NIST lab and they had a partnership here between the government and Alcoa and all the airlines, and someone was going to have to — and how to solve a problem. When it's a really big problem there are people who actually want to know about how to solve it first, and then the boss. So it turns out they end up developing jointly an electrical resistance measuring device, a non-destructive probe, you just put on the surface. I have one that costs about five thousand dollars, and you just put it on the surface of the metal, you measure the electrical resistivity of the aluminum and you can tell the heat treatments for certain elements. And so that was developed under that program, so they could go and they could check the wings at lots of locations to see if they had been [properly heat-treated], okay. I don't know — I was involved in that.

p6 04:14

Another example I heard was the Citibank Tower in New York City. After they built the Tower they discovered that some of the welded joints were not good for seismic loading. Basically if you had recently a really severe earthquake, this building was going to collapse, and so they had a structural engineers to section. There's actually an article — start on The New Yorker about this whole thing and didn't really tell the story that I heard from another point of view. And so you had all the architects, the engineers who designed the building, you had contractor who had built it, a bunch of subs, and then you had the owner Citicorp. And what were they going to do? The story I heard was that John Reed — John Reed was the Sloan School — he became chairman of Citicorp, the one who [retired] four years ago, when he was 75 years. He's chair of MIT Corporation, okay. This guy was the real high flyer.

p7 05:27

And I actually checked with him last winter, plus his brother had a welding problem. His brother was 85 years old and owns a steel tank welding business down in Tampa Florida, not a small one, and they work, well, that's nine percent nickel steel. With John Reed there was someone — my dean was something about welding, I didn't tell that. So he said, I want my brother — his brother to hire me. And I talked to one of their engineers, and I didn't want any help. So anyway, but so I talked to John and he apologized profusely for his brother because he passed the name on, Carl, I didn't need the problem. But I said, John, can you confirm this story? And the story that I heard, which John didn't completely confirm — he said he didn't remember. He remembered the problem, he remembered everybody getting together and working it out cooperatively, okay, because it was a huge problem.

p8 06:37

But the way I heard the story when I was in the Sloan program was that they got them all together, and after John Reed and other people heard how big this problem was, he says, okay, I will pay for it. Citicorp will pay for repair, and we're not going to get any attorneys involved, but you're going to work at cost, and you're going to work at cost, and you're going to work with us, and I will pay for all the materials stuff. And they fixed it, okay. And he remembers that he made some decision in the meeting, but he doesn't even remember about the cost, because damn, he was dealing with hundreds of billions of dollars, and who cares about [a few million].

p9 07:19

When the problems are really big you can often, you know, go around the attorneys, okay. But when the problems are smaller — than just with your hundred million dollar problem — well the attorneys do take control, and then you can't get the engineers together. Because no one wants to allow their attorneys, their engineering staff, to talk to the others. And it's really pretty dysfunctional, okay, so far as solving the problem, because everybody's crafted CYA, because who's gonna pay for it. When the Seawolf submarine had its two billion dollar problems with the welds, well they worked it out, okay. Then, what are you gonna do? You're going to bankrupt your only sub — one of the two submarine building facilities? I mean, you can't do it, okay.

p10 08:15

I remember working for Bell Helicopter on some things, and they had a problem with some, I remember sports or whatever it was from their supplier, and I remember the chief counsel said, we've got to quit thinking that we can sue our suppliers, okay. Because the suppliers will just say — they could say, we're not going to supply you anymore, we don't want the liability, okay. So there's lots of business decisions that go into things. The problem is when the trial attorneys get in there, they're just there, the sharks. Welcome to [the law profession], which is actually okay because they hire me, and that's how I got grandkids.

p11 09:09

But that's the question — logically if it's really big, multi-million dollars, usually find some way to fix it. I've got a problem right now on — I'm not gonna tell you the product — but it's hundreds of millions of dollars of steel fabrication. And they found that they've got a design defect and the company that fabricated it, they were supposed to design it, was on the vector, and these things are breaking. And if they do break at the wrong time, my kill few cows but that won't kill people. But people will be without electricity in the country, you know, become a big political problem with the regulators and things like that.

p12 09:54

But you know, we've had this problem about Bubba, and it's not just this one area of the country that I'm working for somebody. It turns out as we've gotten into it, they got this problem in other parts of the country, surprise, it's the same problem. And I would say, well, when are you going to go find out from the other companies in other parts of the country that are used to this product? Now, none of them really want to talk to each other, because the attorneys are all afraid of who goes after the manufacturer first and puts them in receivership. But they get their money out — everybody wants to be first in trough to get their money out before the company goes bankrupt. Now in fact, I said, on the CEO of these companies, nobody wants to put the stuff in receivership because if you want to be in business you got a [supplier]. Okay, so ultimately you get down to, usually, if it's a really — if it's a big problem, usually cooler heads will prevail. Does that answer your question?

p13 11:00

Student: Yeah, I was curious about the dynamics, by the reputation that is more, or the legal framework, whether they might be criminal, [or] they give their own supplies, always tough like that. Or just trying to get a sense of the industry that is a thing.

p14 11:20

Yeah. I mean these are all kinds of variations over this. The famous one is when Johnson & Johnson found out that someone was spiking the [Tylenol], you know, putting poison in their Tylenol, and this was on store shelves. They recalled all the kind of — well, they hadn't done anything wrong, but it was their product and their reputation. You read the credo — we've got the credo with Johnson & Johnson — that basically comes out of Hippocratic oath, that they will not do any harm, and you know, they will do what's right. And a number of companies have that and follow that. And Johnson & Johnson got more — they actually calculated that their business improved by more than the cost of recalling all the Tylenol, okay. And they got great press for thinking about doing the right thing, even though it wasn't their fault.

p15 12:11

By the same token, I was involved in the northeast extension of the [Amtrak] and Amtrak a few years ago. And they had a British firm doing this 300 billion — three hundred million dollar Amtrak contract — remember Amtrak is a subsidiary basically, basically covered by the federal government. So this British firm has all kinds of commuter train tracks and stuff, electrified train tracks, was in charge of this. And it was a fixed cost contract, and they needed five million dollars. Well, they needed a bunch of copper wire for the overhead conductor that these electric trains still run on. If you go out right [outside].

p16 12:58

So I got a call on like the twentieth of December one year, could you go out — they paid the British company had — was going to buy product from this copper wire, a very special type of copper wire, from a little company in Rome New York. Could I go out there and see if this is — it was an inspection, and could they give a waiver about this product, respect it? And, oh by the way, we have to have a decision before Christmas, just on the 20th, okay.

p17 13:38

When I go out there and I look at things, by the 22nd or 23rd I say, no can't, [accept it]. Well at that point Amtrak issues order, don't install any of this product, go find another supplier. And the British company said, there is no other supplier, we've searched the world, we can't find anyone who can make this product, and if you don't let us put it up, you're not going to be able [to finish the] northeast extension.

p18 14:07

Well, anyway, through other things it turns out the government found out that there was a company called [Phelps] Dodge, which is one of the world's largest copper companies, and they wanted to — they had a product that would meet the spec, but actually exceeded the ductility. It had more ductility, the stress-strain curve and energy, without even further. But for whatever reason, they were suspect here. The ductility was supposed to be more than ten percent, [it was] less than twenty percent, [in the case of] stretching this like so, body, okay. And anyway, we found out about this and I said, hey, use the Phelps Dodge material, it's [out of] spec, is the spec, but it's a silly spec, okay. But so cordially, since it's a silly spec, okay, alright, fine. They ended up using it, they built it with this stuff.

p19 15:04

But first British company had not obeyed Amtrak, they actually put some of the stuff up around here in your Providence. And they had a train run by, and it was just — it was the Fourth of July, arcs all along here. I mean the wire was wavy, and the slider would bounce as it went along and get electric arcs, and the wire would have worn out in three months. Profuse [sparking]. So it turns out I was right in rejecting the other product. But the reason they wanted to get that other product is they could buy that product for two and a half million from Rome New York, and they could get [it] from Phelps Dodge [for] 4.7 million. And they wanted to fix-cost project, so guess which one of them chose? And what did they tell the federal government? There is no one else.

p20 15:55

And then when the federal government found out about Phelps Dodge, they said, why did you say [there's no one else]? They didn't meet the spec, but we just think you were asking to avoid the spec, okay, over here in Rome, but you didn't even ask us or even tell us. In fact, you certified to us that there was no other supplier. So we went to a 5-day or 3-day mediation done in Connecticut. And there's stories about that too but, anyway we ended up prevailing. But the next day after they came over their decision — I was no longer involved — but the story was that the FBI came in and they confiscated all the computers and the passports of the senior management of British [Rail] member for fraud against the federal government. They had lied. And the Justice Department doesn't like that, particularly when you're trying to make a few million dollars off of your lie. So that's another example of what happens and why, okay. I don't know what actually happened. I'm sure there was an accommodation, and it probably costs the company quite a few million dollars from their fraud, okay. I doubt the new England went to jail, okay, but nonetheless [we learned].

p21 17:21

[Other] stories about RV brake shoes for companies — if you get them around using a government Justice Department attorney [you can resolve things]. Okay, so I keep on talking about how — you remember when I decided maybe I get this work — anyway, I'm going to show a video, goes for about ten minutes on hydrogen [embrittlement]. Apartment again. Oh that's what's going on, Microsoft has decided it wants to do an auto update right now.

p22 19:15

[Video plays.] Such as slag inclusions, porosity, and hydrogen cracking is independent. They said depends on the materials, public process procedure conditions. Hydrogen cracking, also called hydrogen-induced cracking, assisted cracking, cold cracking, delayed cracking, and let it be, typically occurs at stress concentrations, can propagate through the weld metal or heat-affected zone. Hydrogen cracking results when three independent conditions occur: hydrogen in the weld, crack-susceptible microstructure, and tensile stresses happening.

p23 20:12

Because the susceptibility to hydrogen increases with increased hydrogen content, this demonstration video will focus on [low-hydrogen] welding processes. Such as [SMAW] using basic type electrodes, gas metal arc welding, and gas tungsten arc welding, are considered low [hydrogen] welding processes. The hydrogen content [of the] weld is measured per 100 grams of deposited weld. A typical low-hydrogen process produces welds with four milliliters of hydrogen per 100 grams or less. In contrast, [shielded] metal arc welding using cellulosic-type electrodes [produces] welds with hydrogen levels of 46 milliliters per 100 grams. That's ten times more [hydrogen]. If a weld remains at high temperature, [active] weld [time] in turn pass temperature control for postheat, the hydrogen that was introduced into the weld has the ability to diffuse away. This is because the average diffusion rate of hydrogen in steel at 100 degrees Celsius or 212 degrees Fahrenheit is typically 1,000 times faster than at 20 [degrees Celsius].

p24 21:45

In addition, a [number of nations'] provide technology show the hydrogen level for welding a quarter-inch and five-eighths inch thick pipe materials without preheating as well so well, five-eighths inch thick material with a 250 degree Fahrenheit preheat. The hydrogen levels are modeled after a typical cellulosic-coated SMAW electrode.

p25 22:15

[The video] shows hydrogen [diffusing from the] root pass and diffuses into the heat-affected zone, base material, and surrounding atmosphere as the [weld cools]. The maximum hydrogen level is present days after welding, at 1.75 milliliters per 100 grams for the quarter-inch thick pipe and 1.5 [milliliters] for [the same with] preheat. [The benefit of preheat]: you can recreate for the thick-wall pipe, a lot more hydrogen diffuses away, and lowered the maximum hydrogen level to 0.75 [milliliters] per 100 grams. Postheating following the completion of welding can further reduce weld hydrogen. Hydrogen can come from sources other than the [welding] process itself. It can be introduced by organic materials or moisture that are either on the electrodes or the materials seen well. Hydrocarbons and [moisture get broken into] atomic hydrogen in the intensity of the welding arc by the holes in [Bethel].

p26 23:30

This is because the liquid weld pool has a very high solubility for hydrogen, but as the weld solidifies and cools to room temperature, the hydrogen becomes trapped or supersaturated [in the] solid steel. [You] may be wondering how hydrogen can [reach] above [a few] months if the bubbles of porosity are evident. Let's look to the periodic table. Iron, the main element in steel, has a relatively large atomic size compared to the small atomic size of hydrogen. If you imagine the iron atoms are basketballs and the hydrogen atoms are ping-pong balls, it becomes apparent that hydrogen atoms can fit each of the spaces between [the iron atoms].

p27 24:15

The following welding demonstration will show the differences [between a] high-hydrogen SMAW [cellulosic] electrode and a basic-coated [low-hydrogen] SMAW electrode. The low-hydrogen electrode used has the designation H4R, meaning the hydrogen content of the as-received electrode is four [milliliters per 100] grams or less, and it is covered with a moisture-resistant [coating], both the importance of proper maintenance of low-hydrogen electrons. [Demonstration]: V he is most dense, three V-bead on-plate welds are being deposited [as part of the] shielded metal arc or stick welding process. Immediately on completion, the welds are placed into mineral [oil] [to observe] the diffusion of hydrogen for the completed welds. ABC. The first sample is welded with the cellulosic [high-]hydrogen electrode and placed. A large number of hydrogen bubbles can be seen slowly diffusing [out].

p28 25:26

The second sample was welded with a low-hydrogen electrode. Compared to the first sample, [it] coincides with the fact that approximately ten times less [hydrogen] will be introduced to a weld made [with] low-hydrogen electrode compared to traditional cellulosic electrode. The third sample was welded with a poorly maintained low-hydrogen electrode that was allowed to absorb [moisture]. Despite the moisture resistant coating, you can see a large number of hydrogen bubbles diffuse similar to the [cellulosic electrode].

p29 26:11

[To show the] beneficial increase in the diffusion of hydrogen after welding, the [low-]hydrogen electrode [weld] is allowed to sit at room temperature. The hydrogen [bubbles do not] [continue to come out as fast]. [Then it's] placed in a [bath] of oil heated to [a higher] temperature. The temperature that we show allows hydrogen to diffuse 1,000 times faster than room temperature. We can see the diffusion begins again, and a rapid release of hydrogen occurs. Therefore welds that we heat and allow to slow [cool] will allow more hydrogen to diffuse, reducing susceptibility [to] hydrogen [embrittlement]. So remember, limiting hydrogen in the weld [reduces] the hydrogen cracking susceptibility. [We've] demonstrated [a low-]hydrogen electrode introduces [less hydrogen than a cellulosic electrode]. However, improperly maintained low-hydrogen electrodes can introduce approximately [as much hydrogen] as a [cellulosic] electrode. If it is not feasible to significantly [reduce] hydrogen [introduced to a] weld, careful control of preheat the inter[pass] gas temperature or post[heat] increases hydrogen diffusion and [reduces] cracking susceptibility, okay. Later.

p30 27:37

[Video ends.] Okay so let's look — looks like much of the hydrogen's gone, right, sir. Can you check your connection on the mic, it might be just a movement. That's good. Okay. It takes about a week or two for most of the hydrogen to diffuse out at room temperature, but if you have heated up to 250 degrees that will go a lot quicker. And in fact that's what we do if they're welding very high strength steels in, you're building bridges with a heavy Federal Highway Administration. The welding code, AWS welding code, it says you must wait, I think it's 72 hours, before you do your non-destructive testing. Remember they called it delayed cracking.

p31 28:53

It turns out their specs ASTM specs let's say, if your heat treating, like a helicopter rotor blade or mast, okay, which is very high strength steel, can tolerate not four milliliters of hydrogen but less than one milliliter of hydrogen [when] welded. But this can be some of the — see, the hydrogen's dissolved in the steel. One of you asked where the hydrogen comes from. There is usually, for a typical steel coming out of the steel mill, just because of the humidity in the air when they were melting the steel, you'll have one part per million, maybe two parts per million hydrogen in the steel out of the steel mill. Not a problem if you're welding lower strength steels. When you weld you can get that up to 30 parts per million, okay. First of all, you [grams per] [hundred] is like a 1.1 conversion factor, so just make up that's the same. That four milliliter stick electrode, that's the best you can buy in normal commercial practice, okay. And we'll see a little later that gas metal arc welding, which is one of the things we're going to [discuss], has even lower hydrogen, and that's one of the reasons to go to it. But you can have, at very high strength steels like aircraft landing gear or helicopter rotor mast, when you're at 250 ksi, you tolerate less than one part per [million], okay. And that could be from the steel making process.

p32 30:22

Student: Yes, [can] simple hydrogen [cracking] still occur a [year or] two years after the [weld is] completed?

p33 30:27

No, not unless it's been reintroduced — a hydrogen. It is, it will cure itself if you keep it up. I know one case where it lasted a year, and that was the High Sierras where it was frozen all winter, okay. And I'll show you that, I'm showing that. If you want to keep hydrogen in steel, in fact I had a student do his thesis back 30 years ago on hydrogen cracking [in] armor steels. He was working for the Army over here in Watertown Arsenal. He would make his welds and within five seconds put them in the liquid nitrogen, so that he held the hydrogen in there so he could do his hydrogen analysis. But you all see how fast it came out, by [taking] gordon in there. And to get the actual hydrogen you had in there at the time of the weld, you can only extrapolate back, because you can't weld it and then have a [diffusion analysis] at the same time. Although Morris Cohen suggested that, something. In fact that's where I learned about impracticality of great academics.

p34 31:36

Student: I see [a] story about, like, the practical side of preheating. We were welding on a destroyer's rudder steel. Yep. And when you have to preheat thick steel, that heat goes somewhere and spreads. So you have, and if a welder has to get into a tight spot to weld, then they're basically welding in an oven in groups, you know. They're burning, you can burn yourself just touching the surface that you're working on. Or like, the practical aspects of preheat can get pretty tricky.

p35 32:07

In fact in the Seawolf submarine which was hydrogen [cracking], because I actually determined it was hydrogen due to a lubricant zone, the gas metal arc one, and not cleaning the lubricants off well enough, okay. That was my conclusion. [Electric] [Boat] didn't like hearing that, because they [had] left over [from a previous job]. But when they started to repair it, because they first had to dig all the welds out and then start re-welding it, because Congress was not happy at the time with two billion dollar problems, they actually started welding in what they call blue jelly suits, as you said. I mean the foundations of the submarine are pretty heavy steel, and a lot of, are like egg-crate construction. And you're crawling into some hole, and they wanted you to preheat to 400 degrees Fahrenheit. How would you like to be the welder in a crate construction underneath these? It is — and another, so they actually put them on little tractor — they're little wheeled carts, like a mechanic uses underneath the car, right. And they put them in blue jelly suits, and they're pumping chilled liquid blue jelly through them, and they were breathing air through a mask, and they went in there, and they had like ten minutes worth of welding time in there before they had to come out and someone else had to go in. Talk about [free C], okay. At that point they couldn't not repair this person.

p36 33:38

I sort of like the USS Cole, okay. They repaired the USS Cole at a cost that was greater than building a new destroyer, because they didn't want — was it the Iranians who was — whoever bombed the Cole — they didn't want them to think that they didn't destroy the capital ship with the USA. So they spent more money to repair it. But that was sort of the Sea Wolf too, but they had blue jelly suits. You're right, it can be pretty visible work, okay. They don't use blue jelly suits anymore. We actually would use, but actually the reason for that, they could get all the up-to-two-inch-thick plate they wanted from the steel mill our equipment, but they couldn't get the four-inch plate for more than a year, okay, for various reasons. I mean it's just the capacity of the steel mills and things like that. So they had to reuse the really heavy steel plate, and that's what they were welding in the blue jello suits, okay.

p37 34:43

When they went to the other parts of the submarine, they actually just replaced — like it's cheaper just to scrap the old stuff. And then they had tighter chemistry control on the weld metal and on the base metal, so that they didn't get themselves to higher hardnesses and greater susceptibility, and to keep the hydrogen down.

p38 35:04

But these problems show up all the time. Just like on sideways at me, and you know, in the Bay Bridge in California, they — it's coming from corrosion. They have these big — probably I think they're 46-inch diameter steel tie rods, and they started corroding, and the corrosion process creates some hydrogen that diffuses into the steel, not as much as well, and they said, oh, they crack within a couple weeks. Well, that's hydrogen. The hydrogen usually will diffuse out within a few days. For federal highway stuff you don't do your inspection for cracks until 72 hours later, because the cracks usually form in the first few days. The US Navy and some [ship]yards wait seven days. Okay, make sure [hydrogen and] cracks have conformed if they're going to form. What good does it do to inspect it if the cracks haven't formed yet and they form after you inspected? Is there is a tolerance for the I-screen steel item in the high-strength steel brittle, based on maintaining harmony in high-strength potentially, more clue what it is.

p39 36:18

And they actually have, they had the Venn diagrams, the three circles, okay. So they have the three circles, and this is the way the corrosion folks typically talk about stress corrosion cracking, hydrogen embrittlement, a number of corrosion processes. And frankly hydrogen embrittlement can be considered a corrosion process, everything. But you have stress, you have to have three things: stress, a microstructure that's [susceptible], and in this case requires a hydrogen [embrittlement]. If you have that hydrogen — no hydrogen, you don't have a high stress, you won't have hydrogen [embrittlement]. If you don't have hard martensite — martensite is the most susceptible of all the steel structures to hydrogen embrittlement — under low levels of stress and hydrogen. And the reason they like to do a Venn diagram is the problem occurs at the intersection of all three. You have all three. If you have less hydrogen this becomes a smaller circle, and it doesn't intersect the other two. If you have less residual stress, that's why we stress relieve, you don't intersect. If you don't have a martensitic steel, well, how do we get a non-martensitic steel? HY-80, HY-100 [are] martensitic steels. We go to high-strength low-alloy steels, HSLA-80, HSLA-100. We didn't have that technology in the 1960s. Well, we had quench and temper.

p40 37:54

But the Japanese developed what they call accelerated-cooled steels. Actually they were first developed by Jones and Laughlin Steel in the United States in the 1960s for automotive dies, but then we didn't do much with it. Japanese had a huge ship building industry and they wanted to be more productive to keep the Koreans from catching up with them in the 1980s. And so they started developing high-strength low-alloy steels. The reason the US Office of Naval Research sent me to Japan in the mid-1980s is because the Japanese had the best technology in the world for making HSLA steels. We didn't even have a steel company that could make it. The US Navy was considering investing a hundred million dollars into a steel mill under what they call a Title Three program, where the government can come in and pay for the capital equipment to produce something that the military felt was necessary. They wanted me to go over there and learn about how the Japanese did their accelerated-cool way to make higher strength steels with lower carbon, lower hardenability, and therefore better weldability. High hardenability is bad weldability. We'll get into that at some point if you guys wanted, or we could just go on to things like aluminum, titanium, nickel, stainless steels — stainless steels are still seen.

p41 39:25

Student: Yes, that the reason the high-strength steels [need] always less hydrogen, [is that] they had more marks or martensite, more than steel mark[ensite]?

p42 39:36

[The] important [thing about] HSLA — chose LA — because you introduce this with HSLA, you have less martensite, you can keep — no, [it's] more keep eating the same that, you know. High-strength steels can have been high [hardenability] or very low hydrogen. Why? Well, high-strength, because the high-strength steels have more residual stress locked in, okay. Remember, who is it talking back there back about pulling the pipes together, jacked the pipes together yesterday, and then when you come they go [spring], you know. That's the locked-in stresses. The higher the strength of the steel, the higher this locked-in stress, the bigger this starts this circle. The more martensite, HY-80, the worse this circle. So you make this HSLA, that's better. You make this lower strength steel, or you stress-relieve it to get rid of the residual stresses, or you lower the hydrogen. We actually do all three because we don't want to have that intersection in the center, okay. You can shrink each one of those circles in size if you're clever, okay, but it costs money to do it.

p43 40:42

Yeah, question.

p44 40:45

Student: I think [about], you know, GD nuclear power, [where] they'd be real fracture to us very early. It was very brittle fracture, and so all our tasks to make sure I'm not making — like I'm watching my charms together — brittle fracture is like pretty distinct long, and you know, in a hypothetical scenario if you just create a material with no pre-existing flaws then you can prevent brittle fracture. The practice is impossible, but that's very different than what we're saying here. We're saying the very structure of the atomic structure that will be used permits hydrogen [to diffuse] into the structure itself. Yeah, and you know, [if you] did not — there's no pre-existing flaw, I'm serious for the distance of fighting.

p45 41:27

Okay, well, you always have flaws in the steel, microscopic. No, seriously, microscopic, smaller than a human hair, flaws. The hydrogen will diffuse to those. In fact, if you go on YouTube you can find probably somebody in the 1950s and 1960s at Rensselaer, Apollo Tiffany. They actually took a piece of steel that they welded and polished, or they may have introduced the hydrogen not by welding, they may have done it by — you can electrochemically introduce hydrogen by a rapid corrosion process. They have a notch in it, just like my torn piece of paper, and they would put tension on it, and they would watch them — to put some blistering on the top. And we look at it in a microscope, and they could see the bubbles coming right out of the crack tip, because the crack tip is larger in volume because you're stressing in tension. And the hydrogen wants to diffuse there, and as it concentrates at the crack tip, it allows the crack to progress. And you can see in the microscope a growing crime rate of hydrogen, and you can see the bubbles coming up right ahead of it, because the hydrogen wants to diffuse to that crack tip, unless you can [diff]use it out to the air faster. And it will start even at these little inclusions.

p46 42:44

And people have found that — well, the Naval Research Lab found in the nineteen, early 1980s, they could weld HY-[80] [with] lasers and have better toughness and more resistance to hydrogen in the weld pool, because the laser actually vaporized away the inclusions in the steel, and they ended up with a super clean steel from the welding process that didn't have these little imperfections. So we don't get sort of — a scientific curiosity proves the point that if you're ultra clean, you can't make steam to steal that clean on the tonnage basis. Maybe a hundred years from now we'll have some way to do it, but today we make steel thirty times cleaner today that was 50 years ago. That's why we don't have laminate — while monetary — why we don't have hot cracking, not hot cracking but we eat [out the] crap, okay, when you put in a stress-free furnace. It's different for any batteries.

p47 43:47

But we still can't make perfect materials. And a lot of things you hear about materials, the nanowires, nanotubes, and graphene and all this stuff, all those things are based on some physicist calculated on a piece of paper what he thinks the properties of absolutely atomically perfect material are, okay. The head of GE Aircraft Engines, Bob Sprague, from 30 years ago, was very frank speaking personally. He's the one who said, whatever you first hear about properties of a new material, write it down, because those are the best properties of the material whatever happened. And Jim Williams, who replaced him, used to say, his corollary is, whenever you first hear about the cost of a new material, write it down, that's the cheapest the cost is going to be, okay.

p48 44:38

Well, it turns out — what was I going to [say from] this — the Bob Sprague — there's other quote — he says — he says physicists think that structure controls properties, and that's the big thing from the [DMSE] material science department here. He said it, he actually said it, I've seen the book twice, I'll give it to you. The second way, he says, material scientists, who are wannabe physicists, okay, think that structure controls properties. Metallurgists know that defects control properties, okay. How big is that little notch, okay. And even microscopic notches in some cases are what limits your properties.

p49 45:20

I passed around that little thing the other day that it was electron beam welding overcladding nickel alloy on top of a piece of steel, and that produced some of the cleanest microstructures because you're electron beam refining every little weld pass. They're kind of pricey, but you can make very clean material. So when we're making steel in space in volume with lasers, well, how about the next word back to — that's how the higher quality single — you want to take your submarines and build them up in space. That's fun. Well, remember it.

p50 46:34

Okay, [over-rely on] [your operator], be careful. Maybe the Air Force, they would actually believe that. Oh, let's start building [submarines in space] for some reason, sigh, I got them then. That is a feasible idea.